(Disclosure: Like most Americans, I support Israel's right to exist. That does not mean I that like everything Israel does, any more than I like everything the U.S. government does. Neither does it mean that I am Jewish (I was raised Catholic and would define myself as Unitarian, my wife is from Asia and was raised Buddhist and cannot fathom this whole anti-semitism thing, and the closet thing we have to a family clergyman is an Orthodox Rabbi that was one of my closest confidants long before he became a Rabbi... go figure) nor a fundamentalist Christian supporting Israel for religious reasons (I am fairly secular). I support Israel because of the unique set of circumstances Jews faced at and just prior to Israel's founding - the world had failed them in their time of need and the surviving Jews of that time and place took matters into their own hands - just as the Founding Fathers of the U.S. had in their time. I guess it also does not hurt that Israel has been a staunch ally of the U.S.)
Stay with me... I am going to weave some disparate threads together for this post.
Telling Jews to go "home" or telling blacks to go "home" to Africa is very much the same thing as telling Europeans to go "home" - leave America to its "native" peoples, themselves immigrants from Asia - or tell Mexicans to "go home" from Texas or California... or tell whites in South Africa to go "home" to... oh, wait... they have live in South Africa for over 4 centuries...
Sometimes, cultures clash. They do so for a variety of reasons. When you figure out how to do that in a perfect way... you let me know. I found it strange that in exchanges with 2 guys I met on FaceBook, both avowed Socialists/Communists, that both of them brought up what they viewed as the subjugation of the "Native American" by the European settlers as a primary reason to despise the U.S. and end capitalism. My bet is they want the "Jews to go home", too. Certainly the whites in South Africa... but not the Mexican's in the U.S.
Not terribly consistent, to say the least! (nor terribly well informed. They should read "Scourge" on the history of Small Pox to understand what happened in the America's. I am pretty sure man did not create Small Pox, had little control over its spread, and given our history on the politics of HIV would be unwilling to quarantine large portions of population for being "Small Pox Positive").
I have no idea how to solve the culture clashes of this sort. Clearly, neither does Helen Thomas. I do kinda like my whole non-violence/sanctity of life position. When all else fails it gives folks a fall back position that keeps them from killing one another (when practiced). I also like assimilation, but what can be done with groups that adamantly refuse to assimilate? Some how forced breeding and murder seems to come up a bit short as a solution. Who are we to tell people how to assemble?
Given the FACT that between 4% and 5% of the population sends the wrong guy Father's Day cards because women cheat as much as men (Who do you think the cheating husband is sleeping with? Or who all those dirty politicians are cheating with? Somebody else's spouse (wife). People having sex get pregnant. Simple. Like. That. Before DNA testing came along there was an old saying: "Mama's baby; Papa's? Maybe."), and given the statement:
"When strange peoples meet - first they fight, then they fornicate."
well, we all know that many of these mortal enemies are actually reasonably closely related.
Don't tell them that, though... they are too busy hating and killing each other.
35 comments:
We can't turn back the clock, nor can we demonize the Roman/British/Spanish/Portuguese empires of the last 500 years that displaced so many people. It did a lot of good too.
Lots of entities have pluses and minuses. I can blame the Salvation Army for pushing Christian nonsense, but they do help a lot of people with alcoholism (Alks Anonymous), and helps to save families.
What we can do is realize today that "he who births the most, wins."
The Arabs may not be right in their hatred of Israel, but with 8 children per Arab & Muslim family, Israel is doomed anyway. We were definitely NOT right in our treatment of the American Indians, but we procreated faster. Many black ancestors would have been killed had they stayed in Africa.
Condemning the Mexican influx in this country is a waste of breath also. The Mexicans like to have babies. They will "be America" soon enough.
The Chinese defeated every enemy they ever had by marrying and breeding them out of existence.
Maybe someday we will find out what was REALLY driving Helen Thomas. Maybe she can see the future. A "PR apology" was unnecessary.
Communist and Liberals attack whites plain and simple, especially a male dominated white society. It isn't about someone going home it is about redistribution of wealth and power and they found an in-road in white guilt.
They found out how potent this white guilt was and how easily other white liberals were willing to sacrifice white cultures not their own. I think it amazed and surprised them so much at first.
Take South Africa. The Boers settled there at a time when the country was almost totally abandoned and barren. The tribes that did move into the area were running from the Zulu not native to that particular area. Yet what we have today is an ethnic group claiming the land belonged to them and Liberal whites celebrating that someone else had to pay to make them feel morally superior.
Israel? That was a Jewish homeland long before Mohammad ever married a cougar and started his perpetual Jihad. Yet the same liberals who attacked SA now turn their guns on Israel because it was traditionally White and in their eyes male dominated.
As for American Indians there is still some debate that the oldest inhabitants of North America were nothing more than hunter groups that moved in from Europe like the clovis point culture. There is other evidence that Europeans were here long before even the Vinland Viking era. Also any student of Colonial American culture can attest that any "Mistreatment" on the frontier was a very tit for tat thing and alot of it weighed on poor political choices by some tribes.
In fact name any other culture on earth that has tried in any way to assimilate and educate a group they had conquered and oppressed. Only a white society has ever even attempted such humanitarian treatment of tribal cultures and yet we are still ceaselessly attacked as oppressors.
So, because Europeans slaughtered and oppressed the Jews that means they're entitled to land that they lost 2000 years ago? And it justifies their on-going oppression of the Palestinians? And who cares if it was ever the Jewish "homeland"? Perhaps they ought to take that up with the Italians, since it was the Romans that scattered them.
PioneerPreppy-- your revisionist beliefs strike me as the sort of nonsense that I expect to be promoted by the corn-pone Nazis that Kunstler keeps talking about. Just to get this straight you believe: that the Aryans were in N. America first (despite all of the evidence to the contrary), that the Injuns had it coming, that there wasn't oppression of the blacks by the whites of S. Africa and that the Jews have some special right to Israel just because they were there years ago?
Dear Anon:
I do not accept unidentified commentary - if you want to comment here, register or get a nickname.
As to your commentary... Neither you nor I get to make this decision. The Israeli's have made their decision, you can oppose them if you choose. I choose to support their right to exist.
Nothing is forever. Rome is gone, a number of Chinese dynasties are gone, the British empire is gone, the USSR is gone... things change, people change, the data changes.
As Bureaucrat pointed out "those who breed, win" or as I have said many times before, "DNA wins ALL wars".
Regarding who should pay for the crimes against the European Jews... of course it should be the perpatrators of the atrocities- not their grand children. I am NOT responsible for the crimes of my ancestors. But HOME is were you are born and raised. The people living in Israel are ISRAELI or Palestinian. Neither can be expected to leave.
Greater minds than mine will have to solve that one.
Anon @ 7:03:
Did I mention that you are a f**king jerk off? No?
You are a jerk.
And you are uniformed. The history of North America's native population is the history of Small Pox... not the sh*t weaved into your life by the media or Hollywood.
Small Pox does not sell movie tickets. "The Last Samurai" and his revisionist BS does.
Get with the program. All you know is what you see on TV.
Greg-- I support Israel's right to exist for precisely the reasons you've outlined-- the children there have no where else to go. But I don't support further encroachment in the West Bank to make room for incoming Eastern Europeans, which may have been what Helen Thomas was referring to. In any case, most of my ire here is directed toward Preppy who quite frankly is an embarrassment to this blog.
Gee Greg, I've followed your blog for years and now I'm a "jerk off." So, am I to assume you basically support the nonsense the Pioneer was promoting? I have a keen sense of history, so please don't bore me. Here in Kansas the Kaw Indians were repeatedly abused by white settlers with NO documented cases of any kind of violence perpetrated against the whites. Time and again they were forced off their land. Treaties were broken repeatedly, the land being sold for nothing to pay for the various "expenses" for which they were billed.
I guess if Pioneer and his nonsense about S. Africa, whites being in America first, etc is what passes as reasonable commentary here, then I'm done. That's too bad, as I've always enjoyed your commentary and basically found myself agreeing with you on most things.
I forgot to mention that the Kaw were eventually forced into Oklahoma, but I suppose it was due to their "poor political choices."
For this blog maybe a better topic is: "Can Israel continue existing in a declining petrol world?"
Since I mentioned Colonial Indians specifically and NOT plains Indians I fail to see your point about the Kaw.
As to South Africa the tribes fleeing the Zulu sheltered with the Boer. The current regime is of the Zulu tribes and is not any more native than the Boer were. Not to mention it is funny how your outrage doesn't extend to the racially charged murders of whites there. These people today are treated just as bad if not worse than any white treated a black 100 years ago.
Last I checked the only other place on Earth with clovis point designs (Found all over North America) was France.
I assume that since you are against Israel expanding into other areas of historical Israel then you would also be against a La Raza type movement.
My real point is that if you go back far enough no one was anywhere on this planet first. Deal with it.
I guess I have made some positive movement since I think I am the first person branded a nazi with pro Jewish views ever.
And no I doubt if Israel can continue on in a post oil world, at least not for long.
Dr. Strangelove:
Thank you for using a moniker.
First, allow me to apologize.
That said, there are people that have had different experiences than you, and have come to different conclusions from those experiences. Having listened to Pioneer for a while, and knowing a little of his background, I do NOT find his comments offensive. Strongly opinionated, correct in some/wrong on others... sounds pretty much like the rest of us. I would enjoy a debate between you 2 if you would just leave the vitriol out.
I do NOT CENSURE (absent threats of violence or such). Come, identify yourself, say what you wish,
but try to leave the sarcastic BS behind as it is not accretive to the debate.
Pioneer:
"My real point is that if you go back far enough no one was anywhere on this planet first. Deal with it."
This really boils down to where I was going. NO ONE, Not Jew, Gentile, Muslim, Buddhist et al... has a genetic deed to a particular piece of land. We are citizens of the world with temporary borders.
Killing people is a permanent solution to a temporary problem...
The ongoing who gets what and builds what where? You are on your on... the minutea eludes me. This generation is HOME... right where they were born and raised.
Dr. Stangelove:
I just re-read your comments. You come out swinging, and then become incensed when someone swings back.
This seems to be where ALL of the political discussions here in the U.S. seem to have gone.
Strong opinion without the ability to compromise OR empathize (I did not say you had to sympathize, only that one must be able to "turn the map around" to see the other guys position) will eventually lead to political violence. That is the one constant unintended consequence you can be sure of.
I hope for all our sake that this state of affairs can have the sun set on it.
I don't think the problem is the right of Israel to exist; its the right of Israel to act as it's doing. Suppression with violence and terror has predictable consequences, in this case Hamas.
It seems poignant that Israel, many of whose citizens' parents were directly affected by Nazi and Russian suppression, apartheid, starvation and murder, are using suppression, apartheid, starvation and murder on Palestinians. This has never yet been a successful long-term strategy.
You reap what you sow.
You know, a lot of this cultural conflict was muted during the 1990s (The time of Clinton .. a wonderful time to be alive).
What did the 1990s have? Cheap oil, which compensated for a lot of losses and conflicts, because it produced so much yet cost so little. The tide rose all boats.
I guess that is an indication of the opposite -- just how bad things can get when the cheap oil ain't around no more. Yick.
There are three things that make a nation (border, language, culture). If any of the 3 fails then the nation collapses. It is that simple. The pieces will eventually be rearranged into other conglomerations of nations. USSR, Rome, Assyrian, ect… have all experienced this throughout world history.
As for Israel, it was essentially a dead area in the Middle East. There was still a Jewish presence for the last 2000 yrs. Nobody gave a shit until the Jews moved there and the place started to blossom. Which is quiet remarkable that they have built a world class economy, military and educational system with almost no oil of their own in the middle of a billion people that hate them. The Palestinians are not a people; they are a left over remnant of the Jordanians. Why do the Palestinians have a right there? They tried to cross back over into Jordan and the Government denied this, creating a permanent underclass in Israel.
Bur,
You commies all hate God. :)
Donal:
I hear you loud and clear. Never said I agree'd with every single one of their policies...
The issue was telling the Jews in Israel to go home - they ARE home. White's in South Africa ARE home. Blacks and/or Whites, Asians, Native Americans in the U.S. ARE home.
Being home does not give anyone the right to terrorize another group of people... but good luck with this chicken and the egg problem... eventually a "solution" will be found... I just hope its an acceptable solution.
Dex:
As always, you overwhelm me.
Donal:
I think you and I see this essentially the same way (folks our age usually have a clue as to what life really is), and that everything just and right can be summed up in a respect for life and a rejection of violence.
Compiled first by Newsweek/westerntexas. Good grief ...
"Now it is increasingly clear that the initial reports of undersea oil were right, that life-giving oxygen in the water column is indeed being depleted, and that unless the laws of chemistry have been repealed, dispersants are likely worsening the tentacles of undersea crude. What might have been just another oil spill—albeit a bad one—has been transformed into something unprecedented. Even if the containment dome lowered into place late last week continues to siphon off some of the leaking crude, the Deepwater Horizon disaster will enter the record books not for how much but for where: an enormous release of crude oil not only onto vulnerable shorelines and fragile marshes but into the largely unexplored depths of the sea. The consequences for the delicate balance of existence in the vulnerable ecosystems of the gulf, and for the vast cycles of nature that sustain life there and beyond, are as incalculable as they are potentially devastating."
(7 June 2010)
I'd love the idea of God a lot more if the whole thing didnt smell of a story cooked up by a bunch of old, dead white guys who were trying to retain power over the minorities, women and children, by creating an all-knowing, all-doing yet never seen "God". :)
The 3 million Afrikaners in South Africa did a pretty good job of keeping 25 million blacks in control for a long time. All you need is guns, and for the other side not to have any.
The southeast is doomed ...
http://
earlywarn.blogspot.com/
2010/06/
peak-oil-stress-map.html
Hey Jeffers, they just started adding "fuel ethanol" numbers to the EIA gasoline site ...
http://
tonto.eia.doe.gov/
oog/info/twip/
twip_gasoline.html
Dingane (King of the Zulu) wished to remain on good terms with whites, but watched with apprehension as once empty Natal filled up with blacks - survivors of Shaka's raids and political refugees from Zululand. These people placed themselves under White protection and formed a nucleus of a black population hostile to the Zulus.
Dingane entered into negotiations with piet Ratief and agreed to cede to him part of Natal.
When Piet and 70 followers went to emGungundhlovu to celebrate the treaty Dingane suddenly lept to his feet and yelled "Slay the Wizards!!" The hostages were then clubbed, raped and impaled. That morning Dingane sent his army to the Boer encampments.
Guns didn't help a whole lot there Bur.
I posted that because of the gun comment but also to show that any given ethnic conflict has two sides and plenty of atrocities to go around. Where we make our mistake today is feeling we have the right to interfere and it seems to me always blame the white man.
One thing I did overlook but meant to originally post about was Greg's comment on the birth rate. Although yes those who breed have an advantage what we need to seriously look at is what has allowed the birth rates to give so much of an advantage. Namely oil for food production.
Most evil European expansion was well underway before the oil age and I submit the oil age has in fact turned the tide against European colonization.
Without massive amounts of oil based products the third world nations would not be able to breed as they have. There simply would not be the resources for it.
So without oil other resources were shown and will show to be more important than large scale breeding.
Now what would they be?
Bur,
Where do I start? "Old white dead guys". Really. Bible was finished 2000 yrs ago by a tiny little minority that this article talks about. This minority was a slave people. Christianity is the triumph of the weak over the strong, the poor over the rich and the lamb over the lion. You don't see it because money determines everything to you. Don't beleive me, look over you posts. You are the class warfare king.
See the truth is you do not believe in freedom because you do not believe in God. Freedom is something that God gives. It is his creation and he delegates what he wants to whom. The thing is that you either believe that there is a God or you believe in dialectic materialism. If no God we are nothing more than animals, just the cold mechanical process of the world. So might is right, power is the goal and tyranny is the culmination of the human experiment. Freedom is just an illusion, love is just a chemical reaction, children are just procreation, and life is meaningless.
I could give a thousand arguments bur, but it would not matter. If you do not go out a night and look up and know there is a God, I can’t argue you into believing it. I look at a flower blooming and am amazed that God made a plant so beautiful. I look at a sunset and know I have hope. I find meaning in my life no matter how insignificant I am.
Still doesn't explain why God hides. :)
Freedom (free will) is also some thing God takes away (guess who hardened the pharoh's heart). Christianity got coopted, such as when a certain Roman emporer decided to use its symbol as his army's. The Deists may be right about the real nature of god.
Yes it does. You just can't see what is right in front of you brother. See Bur even if somebody had a direct experience with God, you hold a presupposition that God does not exist and as such deny the possibility that it could happen any way but the specific way you want it to. I don’t want to get to deep into this right now, but the principle of credulity claims that an experience is usual or normally reliable and as such is true. This would not be true in two cases 1. Something you know does not exist 2. Something that distorts perceptions (drugs). What you are trying to do is force experiences to be conditioned on your presumptions.
It seems reasonable to me therefore to take the experiences of theists as prima-facie evidence that God is indeed real, following the principle of credulity. However, although it is hard to see how you could challenge this conclusion, the difficulty in mounting a challenge does not relieve all doubts concerning the validly of the experience. The Theist such as me may seem to you to easy to dissprove. The failure of the experience to be universal is essentially your problem bur, which makes it suspicious to you. Regardless the conditions of religious experiences are based on what you would be determined a qualified observer. In your case the only way you believe in God is if he talks directly to you. But all you have done is paint a God who is what you want him to be. First in order to experience God you would probably have to be attentive. Second you might need certain skills in order understand what you heard (could sound like an ocean, the wind, prayer, etc) Third quality of one’s life could possibly determine if he acted upon you.
These preceding factors are subjective and what are meant by religions, which emphasizes the necessity of faith to know God truly. Most Christians believe that God wants humans to freely choose to serve and obey him out of love, not out of fear of his power or a desire for rewards. If Gods reality were too obvious, it would be difficult for even selfish men and women to avoid obeying laws and covenants, for it would be absurd to challenge an omnipotent, omniscient being. It makes sense then that God would make his presence known to people in such a way that those who do not wish to serve and obey him could remain ignorant of his reality.
Given all this and the fact that humans psyche is immensely complex and devious is difficult for you to understand how someone could experience God let alone meet him yourself.
Bur said: "I'd love the idea of God a lot more if the whole thing didnt smell of a story cooked up by a bunch of old, dead white guys who were trying to retain power over the minorities, women and children, by creating an all-knowing, all-doing yet never seen "God". :)"
This kind of sounds like what our modern, federal government has become, no?
Seriously, is it mere coincidence that the rise of large government has coincided with something of a fall of religion in modern American life? Religion used to anoint the newborn, marry the people, bury the dead, feed the hungry, console and treat the sick, school the children, but more and more, government is taking over, via compulsory taxation, to do many of those functions.
Now does the government do a better job? Well, some would say yes, and I suspect that Bur would be one of those people, but wait a minute. It's also true that in recent decades, the government has had far more resources than the various churches that used to run the schools and hospitals ever had. I suspect that when the easy tax dollars drain away with the fossil energy wealth, we'll see the government's schools, hospitals, etc, for the bankrupt, ineffective, inefficient things that they really are. The fact that the government tries to do it all in an amoral way, giving us the abortion disaster, and redefinitions of marriage depending on what day of the week it is, is the larger, moral aspect of this failure.
K,
The point of the narrative was that God was going to show what was in Pharaohs heart. God did not harden his heart against his own Judgement; it was just being shown to be hardened. When it says he “hardened his heart” he uses a active verb to express what the agent wants done. In the New Testament, a clear example of this type of usage is found in 1 John 1:10, which states, “If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him (God) a liar.” No one can make God a liar, but the attempt to deny sin is the equivalent of attempting to make God a liar, which is rendered with an active verb as if it actually happened.
Stephen B,
That is what the communist manifesto is all about. They even have their heaven (communism: worldwide socialism, no more war, hunger, national borders disappear, etc.) The have the Gospel of dialectic materialism, and they definitely have their high priests and evangelists. The government is literally recreating the biblical narrative except this time unto themselves. Salvation by the state. Not only is it not a coincidence it is what necessarily happens when you take God out of his proper place.
@Dextred
How do you know what God's point is? If His point is written in a bible, which version, chapter and verse contain it?
@Dextred
How do you know what God's point is? If His point is written in a bible, which version, chapter and verse contain it?
K,
First, the text states that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart (7:3; 9:12; 10:1,20,27; 11:10; 14:4,8), and the hearts of the Egyptians (14:17). Second, it is said that Pharaoh hardened his own heart (8:15,32; 9:34), that he refused to humble himself (10:3), and that he was stubborn (13:15). Third, the text uses the passive form to indicate that Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, without giving any indication as to the source (7:13,14,22; 8:19; 9:7,35). This points to what I said in previous post. To illustrate, in discussing the Israelites, Deuteronomy 28:68 states: “Ye shall be sold (i.e., put up for sale) unto your enemies…and no man shall buy you.” The translators of the New King James Version recognized the idiom and rendered the verse, “you shall be offered for sale.” In the case of Pharaoh, “God hardened Pharaoh’s heart” in the sense that God provided the circumstances and the occasion for Pharaoh to be forced to make a decision.
According to 1 Samuel 6:6, God didn’t harden the Pharaoh’s heart; the Pharaoh did it himself. This implies exactly what I said.
There is an Interpretation rule that states no scripture is of private interpretation. Meaning that if it is important God will repeat and explain.
Deuteronomy 30:16-20 explains it best. God gives you free will. In that command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord they God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them: I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
God gives you a choice. But to live life to the fullest is to live the life that he gives.
I can read Greek and have a base knowledge of Hebrew. Buy yourself a good strong’s concordance with Hebrew/Greek word definitions and get an Interlinear Greek-English New testament and A Interlinear Hebrew-English Old testament. You can study the words yourself that way. You will learn a lot more this way. I generally use a NASB or NKJV.
Post a Comment