Why so angry?
Does it matter?
Our systems have bullied people and the media/internet/political outlets (including bloggers like me) seems to have whipped up and played into this anger.
Gerald Celente has a great line that goes something like: "When people lose everything, they lose it". Real or imagined insults and injuries matters not. The 1960's Civil Rights movement was the blowoff of pent up anger. To read the comments on my site and the sites of other bloggers it would seem to me that we could be approaching that kind of level of anger now.
Anger is a spectrum of emotion. People have an intense sense of fairness. When that sense is violated they act. When that sense is reached by a critical mass of people, those actions can be volatile.
I read with interest James Howard Kuntsler's stuff among others in the Peak Oil Blogsphere, and I am somewhat disappointed at the condescending position taken in regards to religious, working class, gun totting, nose picking folks residing in fly-over-land (non-coastal elites). These people are angry for a reason, whether rightly or wrongly is up for debate... but I think it is suicidal for our society to continue to ignore this anger. There are millions and millions of these folks.
After WWI the allies brutally repressed and gouged Germany resulting in an anger that cost the lives of 60 million or so people in WWII.
"When people lose everything, they lose it". Indeed.
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You mean a sitting president told Americans to act prudently and make "sacrifices" for their children's future? That they should accept some responsibility? Somebody alert the media! Well, somebody did.
Am I the only normal person left?
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Social Security payments versus receipts went negative. Well, we all knew it was going to happen... only our government was saying it wouldn't happen for another 15 years or so...
"Opps! Our Bad" said the government.
I can just see the hordes of rioting seniors now...
Medicare is in FAR WORSE SHAPE than Social Security.
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Those two social program baskets cases (not Medicare and Social Security... the OTHER 2), Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, rescued from the edge of darkness last years, are about to go Chernobyl. This would be amusing if it wasn't so frightening...
The crazies do the wildest things, like S.S., Medicare, Fannie & Freddie, and then excoriate the free market for not working! What a scream!
Only now we have 10's and 10's of millions of taught-to-be-helpless people just as the wheels are coming off.
We are beyond solutions for these past mistakes. G-d is going to have to sort all of this out.
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Given the above, what would be the outcome of some other external shock?
21 comments:
On social security- it is not often mentioned that the boomers have been paying out the nose into social security & medicare for their whole working lives- likely $3-5,000/year for 30+ years. And let's not forget the costs of raising Gen X-Y-Z etc and sending them to college.
And now we get nothing back- pretty bad deal overall.
No comments yet? I'm surprised.
I'll keep mine concrete, and try to avoid arguments and heated rhetoric over abstract concepts.
I have a friend in the neighborhood, an older man (late baby boomer) and artist. He lost his job some time ago, and is getting $80 per week in unemployment insurance. Yes, $80 per week.
He is renting a room from a woman nearby who owns a house. She has two children, one in college, while her adult son has moved back home. He's got schizophrenia or something. She lost her job, and is probably going to lose the home to foreclosure.
Multiply this situation by millions.
Right now, people are still blaming themselves and struggling with the attendant depression and ways of coping (drugs, alcohol). Eventually, something is going to blow, though. Or maybe not... Dmitri Orlov claims that in the collapse of the USSR, most of those who died off went pretty non-violently into that good night.
I just don't know.
But people are suffering - big time.
The USSR had no housing and debt crisis - we do.
They had no energy shortage - we do.
Their people had no expectations - we do.
Anon at 8:01:
For the most part I have been in my own business - that meant I paid both sides of Social Security... I get sick when I think about it...
I predicted that a lot of Americans would become FWO's (Formerly Well Off's). Hell hath no fury like a FWO who has lost his job, his SUV and his suburban house.
In any case, you can find my advice from three years ago by doing a Google Search for: ELP Plan.
Hey, Jeff:
I remember your paper on theoildrum.com well. Excellent call.
Keep em coming!
It's taken me four years of reading about this stuff, but I think I can confidently say ... we've been thru this same thing over and over since the dawn of civilization ... every 75 years we have an asset bubble. Too much cheap money made available to too many people for too long (thank you, Greenspan). And what do people do with this money? They buy things (houses, vacations, etc.), as fast as they can, and debt accumulates. This affects both the public (government) and private sectors -- both get caught up in it. It has been happening throughout time, and has destroyed civilizations -- the British Empire, the Dutch empire, the Japanese empire, the Romans, the Spanish, all overextending their debt/spending and collapsing.
So why are people mad now? What are the Tea-Baggers mad about? Government debt, pure and simple. We've been down this road before. There's nothing like a lot of debt service (paying principal & interest) to make people grumpy, and grumpy for their children who will have lesser lives because of it. I myself am paying $3,000 a month of my $4,900 salary for debt payments. Am I happy? Hell no! THROW THE BUMS OUT of office I say. Blame them, not me.
But let's open our eyes. 80% of the Federal debt (at $12.4 trillion and rising) is going to hugely popular programs -- Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Interest and Defense -- that NO ONE wants to end. My wealthy parents will receive WAY MORE from Social Security and Medicare than they ever paid in. I'm going to retire from Obama's army at age 57 (with 40 years to live) with a third of my salary as an inflation-adjusted pension, and another third (invested in Federal debt) from my 401k.
While there could be a LOT of anger fomented in the next few years (the college kids are starting to join the Libertarians cause tuition is going up to pay for those generous instructor pensions), we have only ourselves to blame. We are not princes and princesses. The "shortages" and good living we covered up with cheap energy is no longer an option. We have met the enemy. It is us. And no politician wants to talk about it. We'll survive, but the future is certain -- inflation, baby.
Check out this article by Greer:
http://www.energybulletin.net/51428
B,
I am not sure if your stating facts as you know them to comfort yourself. If so,okay. I imagine most people in any country or time period did the same as TSHTF. Just one thing though you are speaking in terms of money,mostly, this is where your fall short on outcomes. WHEN these nations declined money most likely became less relivant and hard assets ruled the day. In the US of A were lossing those assets daily. Your belief in the US$ and its ability are in question at best. We will find out in shorty order.
My definition of TSHTF; a negative shift in one's (one's pertains to all levels of society, including national )ability to feed,cloth,maintain body temperature, and protect from harm. Last I checked the Markets crashed lossing trillions of $, and millions of people are jobless,homeless ( if you moved in with your big brother after you lost your job, your are still meeting the definition of THSHTF ),Government benefits running low or out, etc. This will happen one person at a time, if your luck as it seems for now. How we continue to react to this will define the severity of the outcome.
Lastly, I know you have prepared for most anything, you said so yourself at times. Most did/do not. Prepare now to be Sugar Daddy:)
peace
Already am a sugar daddy. That happened when everyone realized I had a government job. :)
I could be wrong since I can only speak for my little area of fly-over country but the real pain of all this has not yet been felt here.
Oh sure there have been some forclosures and a good bit of lay-offs but around these parts unemployment has always been high and random lay-offs by those companies who located production here since it was the next best thing to China have always done random lay-offs.
So far the government money is still flowing and keeping the un-employed from "losing it". When that money stops flowing, and it will, thats when things will get truely bad.
The last person I would want to be when that money stops is a G-man bragging on his or her top notch pension and 401K.
Hell even today I know several State workers who will not openly admit to being a State worker in public.
Judging from the looks of pissed off private sector un-employed I don't blame them for trying to hide it.
They'll go after the state people first. :) The California kids have already been protesting at the U of California campuses once they figured out their tuition increases had to be for the generous retiree systems pensions. And if I'm lucky, I'll be out of the government before anyone notices that I have a deal that just isn't available in America anymore .... or, they could smash the whole "gummit" retirement plan. But for now, every two weeks, for 21 years, they've paid me. It's all a matter of public record.
As a proud member of nose-picking, gun toting citizen of fly over land...
Anger does not do a bit of good. Many folks are angry while still smoking, drinking, subscribing to cell phone service as well as cable TV... meanwhile, they collect food stamps and read People Magazine - which REALLY helps to feel fat, ugly, and stupid... There was a great line in the song "Sunscreen"
"Never read beauty magazines... they will only make you feel ugly."
I did not say that much of that anger was well directed... only that it exists, and that to tweak its nose is probably not a real good idea.
But having Obama call a spade a spade and tell folks to take of their responsibilities before heading off to Vegas? He must have had some strong coffee this morning...
I did not bring it up to highlight the moral issues of sinning in Vegas. I could not care less what people do with their free time - but i have no problem with the President making horse sense.
Bur:
Please, let's talk about something else!
That people LOVE services they don't have to pay for is not hard to understand... or as Mish said:
"It is axiomatic that demand for free services is unlimited."
"those generous instructor pensions"
Not so fast there. Many of us, most of us, are adjuncts working part-time without any benefits whatsoever. In a typical year for teaching part-time I'll get paid less than $20,000. The private university grosses $560,000. Purty good margins.
I don't blame people for being pissed either. Study, work hard, go to school and look for a job? not able to pay student loans? live with parents into your 30's or 40's? wait tables?
In return for working hard, getting educated, opening a business, whatever you could expect upward mobility.
At one time there was a social contract. The contract has been breached. People rightly want to collect damages.
Abraham:
Good to hear from you.
Who was this social contract with? Who was the contra party? For what period of time was this social contract the norm and in place?
The American "lifestyle" is only reverting to mean - no more, no less. People with no skills cannot expect to earn $70 per hour anywhere on the planet (or the universe)... why should we expect that to be the case in the U.S.?
Moreover, one cannot jam "skills" down the market's throat. That is what the educational system has done in trying to credentialize everything... and with the help of Sallie Mae, this has perverted th market place and caused untold misery, i.e. living home with ones parents paying off student loans.
Some 60 years in the USA of unlimited gasoline and credit has produced a population in which probably 50% or more are living in a total fantasy world.
Just like 0% interest rates produce a large number of bad business decisiions, it's the same for the culture making bad decisions.
Greg,
In regards to Obama & Vegas, I think Neil Postman was right. Las Vegas is the quintessential American city of the last 50+ yrs and to insult it is, well, un-American.
Also, have you read the latest Archdruid Report? It made me think about some of your recent posts in regards to chess and end game. West Texas put up the link. I'm curious to know your thoughts about it.
I consider both you and John as very level headed about these strange times. As a by the numbers man, is the data supporting JMG's claim?
Jeff:
To my mind, the data support Greer's assertions (but do not PROVE them). In the end, only time will tell.
Greer and I approach this from different points of view. I wish to profit, capitalize, and provide for and expand my personal gene pool, if you will, and help my clan get through while furthering our interests... capitalist bastard that I am...
I am not sure what Greer's agenda is. Perhaps just exercising his considerable cerebral capacities...
Dear anon @ 6:39:
regarding your "50% fantasy" comment:
I do not know WHAT the percentage is, BUT... Everyday, for 25 years now, I speak with business owners and professionals and corp execs (gotta go where the money is), and these folks are very much aware of our circumstances.
This is politically incorrect to say, but I don't give a sh*t about PC... the people that are in fantasy land are the individuals be supported financially by these producing folks - their spouses, children, folks on the dole, etc...
The guy that has been paddling his canoe HARD, upstream and making progress over the years? He ain't as dumb as he looks.
I live in Nouveau Riche land. These guys work hard. Their wives are the "ladies who lunch" (if you don't know what that is, I did not make it up. Just search Wikipedia), and yoga, and massage, and doink the personal trainer every so often... The vast majority of CONSUMERISM is done by these individuals. They wield enormous power because of the vagaries of family law, and they are absolutely clueless.
So are the "kids". I put that in quotations because for their offspring childhood lasts into the early 30's.
There simply is no solution prior to impoverishing them.
Greg,
It's because you're a capitalist bastard that I'm such a big fan.
Right now, I'm hyped cause the Saints just won the super bowl... I'm a little buzzed and I may ramble but there is a point here if not more than one. First, as a wanna be capitalist bastard, I wanted to hear your two-cents on 'too big to fail.' Too big to fail made me capital F, FURIOUS. I thought everything about the bail-outs was wrong. Still, I've tried to be level-headed and see the other side. I read a bit of Hank Paulson's memoirs. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt that he and those around him did what they had to do to prevent financial armageddon. Still, in my heart of hearts, I thought crash and burn would have been better for this country.
For something to rise, there must be fall.
Earlier this weekend I came across this post about David Stockman and wondered what you would think...
http://www.financialarmageddon.com/2010/02/the-single-most-drastic-error-in-policy-in-modern-history.html
Oh and when I was grabbing that link, I came across this.
http://www.financialarmageddon.com/2010/02/a-secular-shift.html
It made me think of your last post regarding the decline of the financial industry. Considering what that could do to my hometown, it's giving me plenty to think about...
The die is cast. From what I can garner from you and the many other energy & money writers I follow, the next ten years are gonna be wild, to say the least.
I've paid down all debt and have gone as buddha as I can get, i.e. rid myself of desires. But more than that, I want to provide for my fam. I wanna make $$$ in the new reality. I love BKLYN and a lot of those traits you describe about the heartland came straight outta of this town... Gun crazy, private-property obsessed and patriotic as they come... And I know I don't have to tell you... the Bronx is even more so. I love the BX... I was up there all last week. They're as tough as nails and as polite as can be and that's a secret about this NYC that just doesn't get out enough...
Act right, think right, DO RIGHT...
As much anger as there is out there today and maybe even more so tomorrow, I got faith in this experiment called the US of A. It will be up to the likes of us to make that difference.
Good night and good luck.
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