tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post5803357603743309500..comments2023-10-14T08:23:14.641-07:00Comments on The American Energy Crisis: Grass Fed Beef - Its what's for dinnerA Quaker in a Strange Landhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15425198389944137571noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-85595334403826439432010-01-07T18:05:04.408-08:002010-01-07T18:05:04.408-08:00Tweel:
Thanks for that data point. I will defini...Tweel:<br /><br />Thanks for that data point. I will definitely check that out.A Quaker in a Strange Landhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15425198389944137571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-35439611800460502382010-01-06T04:21:01.083-08:002010-01-06T04:21:01.083-08:00Dan,
I've got my garden, too. There is n...Dan,<br /><br /> I've got my garden, too. There is no comparison.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Coal GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-28408742070218574532010-01-05T17:25:17.690-08:002010-01-05T17:25:17.690-08:00From http://newsblaze.com/story/20090807091234zzzz...From http://newsblaze.com/story/20090807091234zzzz.nb/topstory.html<br /><br />Dr. David J. Peters, Assistant Professor of Sociology - College of Agriculture and Life Sciences at Iowa State University, has developed a calculator to determine the long-term economic viability of proposed ethanol plants. Dr. Peters was surprised to learn how sensitive the bottom line is to small changes in corn and ethanol prices. According to Dr. Peters, a typical 100 MGY corn ethanol plant built in 2005 (financing 60 percent of its capital costs at 8 percent interest per annum for 10 years, with debt and depreciation costs of $0.20 per gallon of ethanol produced, and labor and taxes at a cost of $0.06 per gallon) will lose money in the current market:<br /><br />At $3.25 corn, the ethanol break even price is $1.76 per gallon.<br />At $3.50 corn, the ethanol break even price is $1.82 per gallon.<br />At $3.75 corn, the ethanol break even price is $1.88 per gallon.<br />At $4.00 corn, the ethanol break even price is $1.94 per gallon.tweellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08164718561825615886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-80267956829517179072010-01-05T17:18:27.884-08:002010-01-05T17:18:27.884-08:00Coal Guy;
I don’t see where organic makes any imp...Coal Guy;<br /><br />I don’t see where organic makes any improvement either. However, letting the produce ripen in the garden makes an enormous difference. I sold my place last July, kitchen garden and all, and the produce I buy at the store is just awful. The difference between tomatoes that ripen on the vine and those that ripen in the back of a truck is about as much as the difference between ribeye and spam. The difference between fresh (picked that day) green peas and frozen is even bigger.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04354887108778074009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-55776698494618012612010-01-05T15:17:54.858-08:002010-01-05T15:17:54.858-08:00I have a farm not three miles from here that sells...I have a farm not three miles from here that sells grass fed beef. It's nice to drive by and see the beef in the field sunning, grazing and doing beef stuff.<br /><br />Grass fed beef takes a bit of getting used to. It's much leaner, a little tougher and not nearly as nicely marbled as that beef that's finished with so much corn. It has a very beefy taste. Only costs maybe 10% more than the local Stop and Screw.<br /><br />BTW the farm is in one of the most expensive towns in Massachusetts - Weston.Abrahamhttp://hotdogjam.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-32749638676103461212010-01-05T14:03:13.421-08:002010-01-05T14:03:13.421-08:00Does anyone have any idea what the breakeven price...Does anyone have any idea what the breakeven prices for corn gas to make ethanol are?confederate minerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10951085180342387298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-45984004009345576782010-01-05T12:04:43.692-08:002010-01-05T12:04:43.692-08:00The dairies have been suffering lately. The low pr...The dairies have been suffering lately. The low price of milk and the high cost of feed has been forcing many out of business, no dairies here are expanding.<br />The increase in alfalfa cultivation has been very evident in the Yuma area. You can get six or more cuttings a year due to the warm winter. Water is the main concern, the new wells will be drawing down the water table quickly and the Colorado River is completely taken.tweellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08164718561825615886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-77829328477345564582010-01-05T09:12:01.563-08:002010-01-05T09:12:01.563-08:00I still disagree on your junk vs. healthy, cheap v...I still disagree on your junk vs. healthy, cheap vs. more expensive argument, as I said on the previous AmerEnerCrisis post, but that's ok. We were supposed to be talking about ethanol as a vehicle fuel anyway. :)bureaucrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03869739125758038029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-89646320565748315292010-01-05T07:16:45.203-08:002010-01-05T07:16:45.203-08:00One thing that doesn't get mentioned too much,...One thing that doesn't get mentioned too much, but is very important to be properly prepared for hard times is to maintain good health. Lose the tire, eat right, get fit.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Coal GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-53471861789782529522010-01-05T07:14:03.068-08:002010-01-05T07:14:03.068-08:00Just for the record. I don't think that organ...Just for the record. I don't think that organically grown food is a damn bit better than food grown using chemical fertilizer. My gut feeling is that the push is a bunch of marketing crap to sell essentially the same food for a higher price. Further, the organic ship has sailed. The world's population is too large to sustain without chemical fertilizer. <br /><br />I do believe that a relatively simple diet of food that you cook yourself using a variety of vegetables, fresh of frozen, cheap lean meats and a moderate amount of starch is the cheapest and healthiest. I'm no fanatic about it. If you get fancy, the saturated fat and sugar content of what you eat tends to be higher. The cost goes up as well. If you go cheaper, you suffer from the lack of protein and nutrients lost cutting out the more expensive meat and vegetables in favor of high starch food. <br /><br /> My argument with Bur is that there is no economic or nutritional advantage in junk food over what you cook for yourself. In fact the advantage is so skewed in favor of home cooking in both cost and nutrition that there is no rational argument to the contrary.<br /><br /> Put that cheese doodle down!<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Coal GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-57924886905312699032010-01-05T07:00:53.420-08:002010-01-05T07:00:53.420-08:00Donal,
I completely agree.
Regards,
Coal Gu...Donal,<br /><br /> I completely agree.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Coal GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-55759755321819492852010-01-05T04:23:57.617-08:002010-01-05T04:23:57.617-08:00If cows are more expensive to feed, then beef and ...If cows are more expensive to feed, then beef and dairy gets more expensive and you all eat less of it - no problem (and probably good for you).<br /><br />But if grain gets expensive and 40% goes into ethanol then millions, literally millions, starve to death in developing world countries.<br /><br />Always good to keep some perspective about what's important!Donal Langhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03421610061804732275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-1292368400586520492010-01-04T22:12:37.607-08:002010-01-04T22:12:37.607-08:00Dan all of shpping handling etc is reflected in th...Dan all of shpping handling etc is reflected in the price.<br /> Alfalfa is a high quality grass it is not comparable to grain in enegy density.Say you had a cow that gets all the hay he can eatp plus grain. If you take away the grain he will still be consuming the same amount of grass.he has already reached his physical limit on his ability to consume anymore. Maybe he could eat eat enough to to replace a1/20 of the grain.<br /><br /> Maybe you are talking about pasture raised. Say a rancher had 1 acre he raised one cow AS FAR as the market goes it doesn't care meat is meat. say it took one year on pasture to raise one for market. If he added corn he could send it to market in 9 months. If he recieved the same ptice he would of course as long as the price of corn is right feed the corn. you need a higher price to cause him not to feed the cornconfederate minerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10951085180342387298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-45339828944084087172010-01-04T22:07:01.846-08:002010-01-04T22:07:01.846-08:00Bill; when I say marginal land I don’t just mean t...Bill; when I say marginal land I don’t just mean the open ranges in Wyoming, I also mean lush land on the flood plain where cattle run just fine, but no one in their right mind wants to build or plant because of the frequent flooding.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04354887108778074009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-55723022226782362942010-01-04T21:23:31.227-08:002010-01-04T21:23:31.227-08:00Confederate; cattle will fatten up on a diet of 10...Confederate; cattle will fatten up on a diet of 100% grass and a little alfalfa. The more alfalfa the faster they fatten, though it still is not as fast as on corn and agricultural wastes. Since healthier (leaner) cuts are in favor now it shouldn’t be that big an issue. There is no need for irrigation and very little harvesting required. Just put them out to pasture, feed them about a pound of alfalfa per hundredweight, and water em. <br /><br />Conversely, if they are going to the feed lot they will have already gained about 650 lbs on roughage and now they will need a heavy course of antibiotics because of all the cattle in close proximity. Then corn must be grown, harvested, flaked, and brought in. hay and alfalfa still needs to be brought in; while you don’t need as much, you are now harvesting it and trucking it in. to top it all off you have that awful smell which is the ammonia and nitrogen escaping into the ether where it is not only totally wasted, it becomes a nuisance to boot.<br /><br />How on earth can that possibly be cheaper? I think the price difference is a marketing ploy.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04354887108778074009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-52324122398622437912010-01-04T19:30:13.283-08:002010-01-04T19:30:13.283-08:00BILL , you said they did have hay before but that ...BILL , you said they did have hay before but that was a differet time. What are you talking about?<br /> Hay is still kentuckys' number one crop! Adding grain to cattles diet is the norm.confederate minerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10951085180342387298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-40726593236620528992010-01-04T19:18:50.602-08:002010-01-04T19:18:50.602-08:00Dan,
"It is absolutely insane that grass-fed ...Dan,<br />"It is absolutely insane that grass-fed beef costs more than corn-fed beef."<br /><br />How so? The largest beef lot in Colorado has 100,000 head of cattle. The cows are densely held and are fattened on corn. <br /><br />Do you know how many marginal acres it would take to run that many head? On good land it would take 100,000 acres at least. On marginal land it could 400,000 - 500,000 acres.<br /><br />Then you stretch out the time to market because the cow can't eat enough grass to get fat. It takes a long time.<br /><br />Grass-fed beef costs more because it takes way more land and more time to get the cow to market.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11538147109007226573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-41498937948595220712010-01-04T19:18:32.755-08:002010-01-04T19:18:32.755-08:00B,B,B,B,
You sure get the ball rolling!
First,...B,B,B,B,<br /><br />You sure get the ball rolling!<br /><br />First,with all do respect to coal guy,I agree on the cost of organic food verse cheap corn derived food. Try buying a week's worth of organic, then the cheap crap the following week. Cheap crap will be cheaper.lb. for lb.<br /><br />I tried. And quit half way. realizing the organics costs would leave me with a lot less food.<br /><br />There is no chance in hell any animal can go of grid and feed our sorry butts. Stop debating and stock up! oh,unless they eat every blade of grass in the country.<br /><br />peaceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-88598262483833395772010-01-04T19:15:23.031-08:002010-01-04T19:15:23.031-08:00tweel,
Is that alfalfa going to beef or dairy cat...tweel,<br /><br />Is that alfalfa going to beef or dairy cattle? In the farm country I'm familiar with the good alfalfa goes to the dairy first because they want the cows to live a long time. Corn kills cows if it's too much a part of their diet.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11538147109007226573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-90524091517357327992010-01-04T19:13:52.536-08:002010-01-04T19:13:52.536-08:00I got out of the market as well but my point is ju...I got out of the market as well but my point is just because the 'traders' aren't moving doesn't mean things aren't changing. The sub-prime issue shows that.<br /><br />"2) Corn products as animal feed is not the norm....Before that, they had hay...we'd have to changeover meat production from corn to hay"<br /><br />Corn is not normal cow feed but that is how we get them to market so fast. They did have hay before but that was a different time and place than our current market.<br /><br />How can we change from corn to hay if the corn is being grown for ethanol? That doesn't make sense.<br /><br />Also, you can't just say, "I'll grow more hay." Where will you grow it? Who will grow it? Can you meet the nutritionally dense needs of the animal to get it to market in the same time frame?<br /><br />These are not simple questions and there are no simple answers to them. I'm not a doomer but I do think you are oversimplifying how easy it would be to switch to hay feed beef. It would be near impossible with our current setup and we could not maintain the same prices.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11538147109007226573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-1158575614260441092010-01-04T18:50:55.329-08:002010-01-04T18:50:55.329-08:00Dan why is insane grass frd beef cost more? ALL ca...Dan why is insane grass frd beef cost more? ALL cattle are gass fed. about half a cows feed must be fodder. Most cattle are fed all the grass/hay they can eat.the corn is more nutriyionally dense .If you don,t feed them the grain they don,t have the time in the day to eat enough fodder they are already eating as much of that as they are physically able<br /> Please somebody tell me yhey understaad what i am trying to explain.confederate minerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10951085180342387298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-90905934238983262010-01-04T18:35:52.556-08:002010-01-04T18:35:52.556-08:00One can think of cattle is a marginal crop in that...One can think of cattle is a marginal crop in that when land won’t support anything but grass or is undesirable for other reasons, such as constant flooding along the Mississippi river, you can run cattle on it at next to no cost. It is absolutely insane that grass-fed beef costs more than corn-fed beef.<br /><br />Yet insanity reigns in the US and the marginal land prime development real-estate. Nearly every stinking year some town gets ruined and rebuilt thanks to government sponsored flood insurance.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04354887108778074009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-78564574070703486912010-01-04T18:10:33.873-08:002010-01-04T18:10:33.873-08:00feeding livestock corn is most certainly the norm....feeding livestock corn is most certainly the norm. Corn puts on weight much faster than hay by itself. If a farmer can take $4 worth of corn and turn it into $5 worth of meat he will. Ifd he cannot make a profit using corn he may switch to hay or depending on the price of hay not raise any at all. either way expensive corn equals more costly meat<br />hogs eat corn. Try raising a hog on hay and let me know how that works out for you.confederate minerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10951085180342387298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-72173946302679122742010-01-04T17:20:34.925-08:002010-01-04T17:20:34.925-08:00Here in Arizona I've seen more fields than eve...Here in Arizona I've seen more fields than ever growing alfalfa. It's high quality hay, not equal to corn, but can be grown on marginal (desert) land and loves heat. At first I thought that folks were just trying to keep the farm property tax designation, since the building boom is busted, (a common tactic to keep the tax man away is to plant a 'scratch' crop of alfalfa) but these are being irrigated and harvested multiple times. There's the normal amount of other crops, cotton, maize and such, but new land is being plowed and irrigated with alfalfa.tweellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08164718561825615886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-40819149922951802692010-01-04T17:17:55.569-08:002010-01-04T17:17:55.569-08:00Hi Bill. :)
1) The bloggers saw the subprime bub...Hi Bill. :)<br /><br />1) The bloggers saw the subprime bubble coming a mile away. I was reading about it in the Mish blog in 2006. I got my money out of the stock market in late 2007, and saved myself from a steep drop. The good traders would have seen it coming. I do not believe most traders are idiots. If they see an opportunity to make money, they will grab it. :)<br /><br />2) Corn products as animal feed is not the norm. Corn has become so subsidized and so cheap that company farms started feeding animals corn products. Before that, they had hay. Now, would prices have to temporarily rise because the population has obviously grown and we'd have to changeover meat production from corn to hay -- most likely prices would go up for a little while. The animals would be better for it anyway.bureaucrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03869739125758038029noreply@blogger.com