tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post2948341078706015974..comments2023-10-14T08:23:14.641-07:00Comments on The American Energy Crisis: Saudi Arabia, Peak Oil, Prepping Vs Homestead/ELM-ingA Quaker in a Strange Landhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15425198389944137571noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-49404704685416172952011-04-27T10:14:06.974-07:002011-04-27T10:14:06.974-07:00Consider the effects of not being able to opt out....Consider the effects of not being able to opt out. <br /><br /> I get my pants taxed off to support a social agenda that I don't support. It appears to me to be socially and economically destructive. If I decide not to pay taxes, someone will eventually show up at my door to collect. I'm part of the cash earning economy. They take their share before I get paid. But it is worse than that.<br /><br /> Kathy and others who participate here are preparing for the future by withdrawing from the economy to the best of their ability. But they cannot opt out just by non-participation. Just cooperation with your neighbors is taxable for federal income tax purposes. If you trade a jar of honey for a sack of potatoes, or help each other build barns, both sides of the transaction represent taxable income, etc., etc. TPTB want to make sure that no one escapes the system. It's not that it is particularly enforceable or enforced, but if you attract attention or piss somebody off...<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Coal GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-55482087005375261172011-04-27T07:00:23.226-07:002011-04-27T07:00:23.226-07:00Donal,
Community is free association of free ...Donal,<br /><br /> Community is free association of free people to enter into social and economic arrangements as they see fit. This also includes the right to OPT OUT of any arrangement that becomes unsuitable to the individual who entered into it. It is free association from the bottom up. It exists outside of government.<br /><br /> Communists want to enforce their views from the top down. Conform to community standards or be persecuted. Choice is limited. Social and economic penalties are severe for those that do not conform. Government enforces norms to the benefit of the elite that prosper from them.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />Coal GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-45594221333287766842011-04-27T04:19:34.047-07:002011-04-27T04:19:34.047-07:00> Someone want to explain to me the difference ...> Someone want to explain to me the difference between community and communist?<br /><br />Scale..ChrisInGahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969192628583787058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-46070340328356215982011-04-27T01:10:46.708-07:002011-04-27T01:10:46.708-07:00Someone want to explain to me the difference betwe...Someone want to explain to me the difference between community and communist?Donal Langhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03421610061804732275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-58186509351809640082011-04-26T19:14:32.306-07:002011-04-26T19:14:32.306-07:00Actually, I'd say that the idea that we're...Actually, I'd say that the idea that we're all supposed to be living "on our own", one or two people to a house or apartment, is extremely stupid and inefficient. Humans, by and large, have never been able to afford to live that way, up until the era of super cheap energy, also known as post WWII America.<br /><br />That more generations of Americans will be living under one roof again is a given and much as been written about this very subject by a range of Peak Oil authors.<br /><br />That the Chinese are thrifty, live together, and save money is something to be modeled and copied, not scorned.<br /><br />Geesh.Stephen B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00746137367376861899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-21921148354466510742011-04-26T18:30:22.917-07:002011-04-26T18:30:22.917-07:00"Working as a family is not un-American, or c..."Working as a family is not un-American, or commie! Having the economic freedom to do business and own property as you wish and with whom you wish is extremely American. The Commie scum-suckers are the ones who want the government to enforce their idea of propriety on your living arrangements and ownership rights. The Chinese immigrants are being VERY American. They prosper due to their strong family, thrift, work ethic and guts. More power to 'em."<br /><br />Ditto.<br /><br />And when did I suggest individualism over the family? "Not once, not ever, not now, not no way". Family, as in extended family...<br /><br />And Dan... "More grandparents than cousins". How very f***ing telling. How powerfully f***ed up.A Quaker in a Strange Landhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15425198389944137571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-51298817204724405762011-04-26T14:05:38.473-07:002011-04-26T14:05:38.473-07:00In my own family it boils down to the divorces. Ki...In my own family it boils down to the divorces. Kids these days have more grandparents than cousins.dennishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00167339350609039463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-62071180320566327652011-04-26T11:15:55.043-07:002011-04-26T11:15:55.043-07:00Anonymous,
Working as a family is not un-Amer...Anonymous,<br /><br /> Working as a family is not un-American, or commie! Having the economic freedom to do business and own property as you wish and with whom you wish is extremely American. The Commie scum-suckers are the ones who want the government to enforce their idea of propriety on your living arrangements and ownership rights. The Chinese immigrants are being VERY American. They prosper due to their strong family, thrift, work ethic and guts. More power to 'em.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Coal GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-6290849300535345582011-04-26T08:23:52.727-07:002011-04-26T08:23:52.727-07:00Go to California...look how the Asians are living ...Go to California...look how the Asians are living (some, not all of them). When they first arrive they are often living 4 or 5 families to a house, which is owned by one of the family members, and they ALL are contributing to getting it paid off (IF it's even mortgaged, which many times it is not because they spent a whole generation saving in their home country to move to the USA and bought that pioneer home outright). After they get the first paid off, they move into a second, and the oldest family stays in the first, but continues to pay toward the second. Second house gets paid off, next family gets that one, BUT STILL KEEPS HELPING TO PAY OFF ALL THE CONSECUTIVE HOMES. This goes on until they own the entire block, each has a profitable home business or restaurant, and you and I pay them rent for the apartment in the building that they just purchased as a family. THAT is our future. Individualism in the old American sense is dead. There will be no more "I own something", it will be "we own something". Before you go pointing the finger at me saying" he's a commie socialist scumsucker!", know that I'm not saying this because I think it's a good thing...it's just what I see happening around me. I'd give anything to be able to live in my own home on my own land farming my own food, but I'm starting to accept the reality that the Chinese family-style living arrangement is likely to be my (our -- as in my family's) best option in the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-2619974078289259362011-04-26T07:15:21.392-07:002011-04-26T07:15:21.392-07:00Dear Anon:
If you can't follow my point don&#...Dear Anon:<br /><br />If you can't follow my point don't comment - especially anonymously. I don't debate "Anonymous". nd I don't debate people that can't follow the discussion.A Quaker in a Strange Landhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15425198389944137571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-17915264484082911082011-04-25T14:24:01.886-07:002011-04-25T14:24:01.886-07:00The local Menonite members around here seem to spe...The local Menonite members around here seem to spend at least some time with other groups in other states. The couples, at least from the small control group I have met over the years, usually had one (wife or husband) that came from a group some distance away.<br /><br />Greg: I understand what you are saying and you're right there really isn't another group to use. Since I see you were using their isolation as a way to show the corruption of our current systems...well Hats off!!!PioneerPreppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09269878017447335944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-43806378043330070272011-04-25T14:01:47.198-07:002011-04-25T14:01:47.198-07:00@Anon,
The incidence of genetic diseases of which...@Anon,<br /><br />The incidence of genetic diseases of which you assign to the Amish has nothing to do with their lower energy, more-work lifestyle but rather with the small size of their community. To connect the two is pretty disingenuous.<br /><br />If you have hard data that show the Amish rely disproportionately on "free" taxpayer-funded health care, I'd like to see it as I don't believe it myself. <br /><br />From what I've seen, they pay cash, are community and self-insured, and they even travel to Mexico and Canada sometimes for cheaper, cash prices for medical services.<br /><br />Citations for your points please.<br /><br />http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-visit-doctors/Stephen B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00746137367376861899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-73419378287331878722011-04-25T13:32:31.119-07:002011-04-25T13:32:31.119-07:00You might want to read up on pretzel syndrome befo...You might want to read up on pretzel syndrome before making a statement on the advantages of the Amish lifestyle. Small highly inbred communities offer their own dangers for kids including life in a wheelchair, multiple hospitalizations and early death. Since they have no insurance and no way to pay hundreds of thousands in hospital bills this is generally all covered by the taxpayers and state medicaid funds. Granted, their avoidance of debt is admirable, but they do not avoid government assistance when it comes to medical care, in fact they probably use much more of it than the average citizen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-79276084692376952982011-04-25T09:39:58.436-07:002011-04-25T09:39:58.436-07:00WSJ had a piece where they commented on the fuzzy ...WSJ had a piece where they commented on the fuzzy numbers coming out of the House of Saud.<br /><br />http://reflexionesfinales.blogspot.com/2011/04/fuzzy-oil.html<br /><br />I am not sure if the link won't hit the paywall, but at least you have the quote.russell1200https://www.blogger.com/profile/16258915475311426433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-87492622097823319782011-04-25T07:46:49.025-07:002011-04-25T07:46:49.025-07:00Saw this on another blog this morning. Very intere...Saw this on another blog this morning. Very interesting.. Its several pages long. But this link links to the page with Tennessee.<br /><br /><br />Best and Worst Run States<br /><br />http://247wallst.com/2010/10/04/the-best-and-worst-run-states-in-america-a-survey-of-all-fifty/4/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-14932859224411525972011-04-25T05:08:59.055-07:002011-04-25T05:08:59.055-07:00The Amish are the only folks I have to observe tha...The Amish are the only folks I have to observe that are in complete isolation... so I use them. If there was another group, I'd be on it.A Quaker in a Strange Landhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15425198389944137571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-9071626895887735142011-04-25T05:05:38.335-07:002011-04-25T05:05:38.335-07:00"Actually Charles, my point isn't to deba..."Actually Charles, my point isn't to debate which is better between the two ideologies. My point is that Amish/Menonite and other like groups are left in relative isolation and therefore get to operate under different rules and avoid issues an average non-Amish family is forced to deal with."<br /><br />My point exactly. OUr systems have corrupted our young people, and the best proof is to look at the differences of groups living in isolation.<br /><br />I was attacking the way our young people begin their lives - deep in debt and squandering resources (weddings, rings, and honeymoons) before they own a home (in essence, our middle class and working class young people are taking on the traditions of the European nobility... where the F**k did they get that idea?). And who convinced them that they need to do it this way? The same f**kers that convince women that they need "flawless cover" of the pores on their faces.A Quaker in a Strange Landhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15425198389944137571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-91714959137543559742011-04-25T02:40:08.929-07:002011-04-25T02:40:08.929-07:00Actually Charles, my point isn't to debate whi...Actually Charles, my point isn't to debate which is better between the two ideologies. My point is that Amish/Menonite and other like groups are left in relative isolation and therefore get to operate under different rules and avoid issues an average non-Amish family is forced to deal with.<br /><br />Besides education, phone service and insurance come to mind. Non-Amish families have had children removed because they lacked these modern amenities. Federal Alphabet organizations have formed raids on minimal child abuse claims against smaller sects for stuff like that.<br /><br />Your average garden variety non-religious American family who moved to the sticks with children and had no insurance, motor vehicle, phone service or public schools attendance would have Social services on them quick if even one child had a minor accident.PioneerPreppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09269878017447335944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-87193151566999512832011-04-25T00:06:03.345-07:002011-04-25T00:06:03.345-07:00PP;
You may well be right that 'once they ge...PP; <br /><br />You may well be right that 'once they get to see Paris....' but having met lots of Americans in Europe, I'd say they split into two camps; those that love it and never want to go back to the States, and those that can't cope with Europe and can't wait to go home, about 50/50 i'd guess. But most Americans never leave the USA; it used to be that only 7% of Americans owned a passport, I'd be interested to know what the figure is now?<br /><br />Of those that stay, there is no doubt that some of my American friends have struggled with, for example, the strong discipline in French schools, which turn out well educated, conscientious and well behaved young people at the expense of an American notion of 'freedom of expression'. Yet French schools have some of the highest educational achievements in the world.<br /><br />But it seems to me mainstream American education is too often failing and, whatever you may think education is actually for, Amish education works in that it creates stable families which are self supporting, with full employment, little trouble and, perhaps most important to the state, minimal costs!<br /><br />And if that's the case now, how much more so than in an energy-constrained future?<br /><br />To me, one of the main issues for us to tackle is to manage the expectations of our young people, so they see a positive future of alternative opportunities, not just a poorer version of what our generation has found entertaining.0000https://www.blogger.com/profile/09209452519864333242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-99704500378481622.post-2317904956475144072011-04-24T20:49:38.206-07:002011-04-24T20:49:38.206-07:00Ya know Greg I don't disagree with your premis...Ya know Greg I don't disagree with your premise but I do have a small issue with your example control group.<br /><br />I am certainly no expert on the Amish or Menonite (sp?) or the various splinter/off shoot groups. I do not know what type of interactions they have in other parts of the country but around here they do receive certain unofficial and official benefits.<br /><br />For one they have a corner on the market in certain agricultural and livestock business employment. I know of a few very large spreads who hire numerous employees yearly but never advertise and all their employees are pretty cookie cutter alike. For another they get a complete pass on basic services and educational scrutiny. My state is pretty open to home schooling and such but even by the loose rules they have most of these families are getting by simply because of their membership in the group.<br /><br />A non-Amish family who tried living the way they do and raising their children in that manner would have social services crawling up their colon. Without the political and community support the Amish etc enjoy children are removed and placed in public schools and then the damage is done and can never be undone.<br /><br />I have met more than one young Amish or Menonite refugee. Once they really get to see Paris it is not easy for some to go back. It has even been rumored there are a number of taxes evaded and community purchased land these younger Amish families are "homesteading".<br /><br />Your message is clear I am just not sure the hermit Christian sects actually deal with the same world issues or pressures the rest of us do.<br /><br />Or perhaps I could be way off the mark. /shrugPioneerPreppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09269878017447335944noreply@blogger.com